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--- translations:stone_troll [2026/07/12 18:39] – [The Stone Troll] english text brief analysis morgoth
+++ translations:stone_troll [2026/07/22 20:44] (current) – [Translated with existing words] morgoth
@@ Line 66: / Line 66: @@
   And the bone he boned from its owner!
-The first version of the song however was composed long before writing The Lord of the Rings (around 1923--24), and some other variations were published in other Tolkien's books including "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil". The tune of the song matches British folk song "[[wp>The_Fox_(folk_song)|The Fox Went Out]]", but the rhyme structure was altered a little bit. Overall there are some similarities to [[wp>Limerick_(poetry)|limerick]] form, but there are 7 lines in each verse instead of 5. Rhyme structure is AAXBBAB but also with frequent in-line rhymes (e.g. AA/BBA/CC/D/DD/A/D).
+The first version of the song however was composed long before writing The Lord of the Rings (around 1923--24), and some other variations were published in other Tolkien's books including "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil". The tune of the song matches British folk song "[[wp>The_Fox_(folk_song)|The Fox Went Out]]", but the rhyme structure was altered a little bit. Overall there are some similarities to [[wp>Limerick_(poetry)|limerick]] form, but there are 7 lines in each verse instead of 5. Rhyme structure is AAXBBAB but also with frequent in-line rhymes (e.g. AA/BBA/CC/D/DD/A/D). The metric foot is mostly [[wp>Iamb_(poetry)|iambic]], but occasionally switches to [[wp>Anapaest|anapaest]] or just becomes irregular, and the shortest line is [[wp>Trochee|trochee]].
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 ===== Translation into Nûrlâm =====
-<WRAP center round todo 60%>
+The was no hard attempt to keep the rhyme, syllable per line count or poetic meter exactly, as they were quite irregular in the original anyway. But generally, if one counts long syllables instead of stressed one, the iambic meter is preserved. The grammar in the translation is rather loose, but doesn't switch to [[:syntax_analytic|analytic style]]. The names Tom and Tim were left as is.
-<todo>complete the translation</todo>
-</WRAP>
+Once again, the silliest, most childish Tolkien's songs proved to be the hardest to translate.  A lot of words were missing in the dictionary before:
-Once again, the silliest, most childish Tolkien's songs proved to be the hardest to translate. A lot of words were missing in the dictionary before:
 ==== Translated with existing words ====
+^ English ^ English (replacement) ^ Nûrlâm ^
+| bump | beat | bump-((accidental matching through onomatopoeia)) |
+| care | worry | mudh- |
+| come by | get, obtain | snab- |
+| come out | appear | thak-ûk-((perfective aspect of "thak-" (to look like), also reflexive in the translation)) |
+| doner | | krampauk((do + agentive derogative suffix)) |
+| for (reason) | while | kusn((there was a word in Nûrlâm dictionary which matches exactly "for (reason)", but it was too long for poetry)) |
+| game (adj) | injured | rulaga((thus, passive participle)) |
+| gone((in the sense of dying)) | pass away | bhan- |
+| grin | smile | borb- |
+| gum (v) | suck | zug- |
+| naught | nothing | narash |
+| nuncle | uncle => father's brother | krankhonk |
+| on((in the sense of wearing cloth)) | put on | tupaga((thus, passive participle)) |
+| pray | ask for, request | has- |
+| rover | rogue | fikhabauk |
+| shank | stem, rod => penis((yeah, I took a lot of liberties here)) | ghru |
+| trover | looter | raunauk |
+| -yard | room, chamber | amb((common clitic noun / suffix for places instead of direct translation ("thazd").)) |
+| yon | over there | zîginal |
 ==== New words ====
+^ English ^ Nûrlâm ^ Etymology, comments ^
+| bare | zogd | NL < LOS “zogtark” < SV < probably from SV “zog” (empty, blank), compare also with SV “garzog-” (to strip) |
+| darn | urg- | HG. Other meanings: revile, scorn, berate |
+| dine | mand- | NL < DS (Isengard Orcish) “manda” (to feast) < “mamata” < “mat-” (to eat); compare with SV “mausk” (meat), obviously from Proto-Germanic or Proto-Slavic roots |
+| dinner | mandrok | see above, merged with "throk" (food), so lit. "feast food" |
+| groan | gimg- | HG < LOS, SV < MERP "gîmog" (n) |
+| lame | hazg | HG < MERP “haltz” < Swedish “halt”? |
+| larn | grûst- | NL, merging “grûth-” (avenge) with “gust-” (teach) |
+| lump | umb | NL < Quenya “umbo”, “umbon” (means also “hill”); cognate of Sindarin “amon” and “mâf”; both from Primitive Elvish “ṃbono” < roots “MBŎNO”, “MBON” |
+| mumble | mûrl- | NL, onomatopoeic with inspiration from Qenya “ulmula” (mumbling) |
+| munch | naiz- | NL < Etym. “NYAD” (gnaw) |
+| shin | urn | NL < Hurrian “urni” (“ni” is some grammatical suffix) < ? Sumerian “ur” [2] |
+| tin | ladg | NL < Gnomish “ladog” |
+| toe | thulb | NL < DS “thul” (foot) < Quenya “tolbo” (also “thumb”) |
+| troll | drog | NL, merging SV “drangu” < MERP (only “ogre” there) with “dro” (wood) and “rog” (demon). Troll that turn to stone on sunlight. Invented to differentiate from Sun-tolerable "Olog-hai". |
+==== The Result ====
+Finally, a Nûrlâm translation:
+<WRAP center round todo 60%>
+<todo>complete the translation</todo>
+</WRAP>
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