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--- syntax_impersonal [2021/06/05 11:56] – morgoth
+++ syntax_impersonal [2021/10/28 19:15] (current) – morgoth
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ====== Impersonal constructions ======
-<WRAP center round important 60%><todo !!!>Examples and translations needed</todo>
+<WRAP center round important 60%><todo !>check translations</todo></WRAP>
-\\ <todo !!>Clarify grammatical case of objects and dummy subjects</todo>
-</WRAP>
-The sentence, clause or verb are called **//impersonal//** when the [[syntax_subject|subject]] or [[syntax_agent|agent]] of action is absent. [[proform#indefinite_pro-forms_and_quantifiers|Indefinite pronoun]] and omitted "you" in imperatives are not considered as absent subject. In English subject of such expressions must be specified by dummy pronoun "it", but in [[Nûrlâm]] it is not necessary, or even ungrammatical. Impersonal sentences may have [[syntax_object|objects]] or [[syntax_patient|patients]]. Typical situations when impersonal clauses are used include:
+The sentence, clause or verb are called **//impersonal//** when the [[syntax_subject|subject]] or [[syntax_agent|agent]] of action is absent. [[proform#indefinite_pro-forms_and_quantifiers|Indefinite pronoun]] and omitted "you" in imperatives are not considered as absent subject. In English subject of such expressions must be specified by dummy pronoun "it" (or less often "one": "One does not simply walk into Mordor"), but in [[Nûrlâm]] it is not necessary, or even ungrammatical. Impersonal sentences may have [[syntax_object|objects]] or [[syntax_patient|patients]]. Typical situations when impersonal clauses are used include:
-  * Action is being done by force of nature or supernatural being: "He was blown away";
+  * Action is being done by force of nature or supernatural being: "He was blown away" => "Thûthuzâtan (bo)"((blow-PST-3SG=3SG.OBJ off));
-  * Verb expresses the state of being (or it's transformation) of person or animal: "It's cold for me" = "I feel cold", compare with personal "I'm cold" = "I'm (always) cold (to the touch of others)";
+  * Verb expresses the state of being (or it's transformation) of person or animal: "I feel cold" = "It's cold for me" => "Grazarz dazûr"((cold.ADV I.DAT)), compare with personal "I'm cold" => "Dakul graz" = "I'm (always) cold (to the touch of others)"
-  * Verb expresses the state of weather: "It's sunny", "It's getting colder";
+  * Verb expresses the state of weather ("to be" = "kul" may be omitted in present tense): "It's sunny" => "Dîlarz"; "It's getting darker" => "Thôlâ bûrzarzar";
-  * General possibility or allowance to do (or not to do) an action, often used with various //directive [[grammar_mood|modalities]]//: "It's not allowed to make fire here", "On holidays one can sleep long";
+  * General possibility or allowance to do (or not to do) an action, often used with various //directive [[grammar_mood|modalities]]//: "It's not allowed to make fire here" => "Narkulâ dabhuga kramput ghâsh zin"((NEG-be-3SG allow-PTCP.PST make-INF fire here)) = "Nardabhâ fizûr kramput ghâsh zin"((NEG-allow-3SG you-DAT make-INF fire here = lit. "Don't allow you to make fire here")); "On holidays one may sleep (for) long" = "Ilfâ lorut rodharz irg birtârsh"((may-3SG sleep.INF long.ADV on feast=day));
-  * "Do-er" of action (agent) is unknown and not specified by indefinite pronoun: "I was told that...";
+  * "Do-er" of action (agent) is unknown and not specified by indefinite pronoun: "I was told that..." = "Gashnuzâ dazûr zamash ..."((tell-PST-3SG.OBJ I-DAT that ...));
 The action of impersonal construction is usually expressed by:
-  * The verb in 3rd person singular;
+  * The verb in 3rd person singular (but 3rd person plural is possible if it's known that action was done by group of people or animals);
-  * [[syntax_predicate|Compound predicate]]: the verb "to be", "to get" or "to become" in required tense and 3rd person singular + [[grammar_adverb|adverb]] or [[syntax_adverbials|adverbial phrase]];
+  * [[syntax_predicate|Compound predicate]]: the verb "to be" ("kul" usually omitted), "to get" or "to become" (thôl) in required tense and 3rd person singular + [[grammar_adverb|adverb]] or [[syntax_adverbials|adverbial phrase]];
-  * Word "no" with some description, usually in dependent clauses: "No way!", "He runs like __there is no tomorrow__". Usually it means that verb "to be" is omitted. Object of such sentences should be in [[case_genitive|genitive case]], but this rule is often ignored in colloquial speech;
+  * Word "no" with some description, usually in dependent clauses: "No way!" => "Nararz", "He runs like __there is no tomorrow__" => "Takhîg oth __nar ârshabob__". Usually it means that verb "to be" is omitted. Object of such sentences should be in [[case_genitive|genitive case]], but this rule is often ignored in colloquial speech;
-  * [[grammar_infinitive|Infinitive]]: "Nothing to see here", "(it's) Time to go", "It's not possible to not drink now";
+  * [[grammar_infinitive|Infinitive]] or [[grammar_gerundive|Gerundive]]: "Nothing to see here" => "Narash hon__ut__ zin" = "Narash honat zin" => "Nothing for seeing here", "(it's) Time to go" => "Il ukh__ut__" = "Il ukhat" => "Time for going", "It's not possible to not drink now" => "Narfalgarz narshog__at__ zil" (lit. "Not possible for not drinking at this time", may be transformed into personal with subject expressed by infinitive: "To not drink now is impossible" => "Narshogut zil kulâ narfalgarz");
-  * [[grammar_gerundive|Gerundive]] with similar use as infinitive;
+  * [[modal_verbs|Modal verb]] with infinitive: "(One) may go" => "Ilfâ ukhut" = "It's allowed to go" => "Dabhuga ukhut"((see next point)) ;
-  * [[modal_verbs|Modal verb]] with infinitive: "(One) may go" = "It's allowed to go";
+  * Passive past [[grammar_participle|participle]] (verb "to be" may be omitted, but it's not recommended): "It's shitted here" => "Zin (kulâ) bagaga", "It's not finished yet at my side" = "(kulâ) Nargorzaga rad rambdabir";
-  * Passive past [[grammar_participle|participle]]: "It's shitted here", "It's not finished yet at my side";
-Patient of impersonal verb is often expressed by noun in [[case_dative|Dative case]], like in German "Mir ist kalt" (literally "to me it's cold") instead of "Ich bin kalt" ("I'm cold"). Similar expressions are used in Russian (but usually with 3rd person plural or 3rd person neuter singular). This is especially true for sentences describing state of being and verbs requiring object in dative case.
+Impersonal clauses often have a shade of passivity and often used instead of [[grammar_voice#passive|passive voice]] when agent of action is not specified: "He was blown away", "I was told that ..." (not impersonal in English but impersonal in Nûrlâm). Sometimes it vice versa, impersonal clauses of English like "it rains" may be translated in Black Speech with //personal// constructions "rain goes/falls/pours" ("miz ukhâ/lûmpâ/sûrbâ"), "there is rain" ("Miz (kulâ) zîgin") which usually occurs when corresponding verbs are missing in dictionary. Another example of translating of English impersonal sentence into personal in Nûrlâm are phrases like "It's not he who ...", which are translated into something like "Not-he (did something)".
-Impersonal clauses often have a shade of passivity and often used instead of [[grammar_voice#passive|passive voice]] when agent of action is not specified: "He was blown away", "I was told that ..." (not impersonal in English but impersonal in Nûrlâm). Sometimes it vice versa, impersonal clauses of English like "it rains" may be translated in Black Speech with //personal// constructions "rain goes", "rain falls", "rain pours", "there is rain" which usually occurs when corresponding verbs are missing in dictionary.
 English expressions "There is/are/was/were/will ..." do not count as impersonal constructions in Nûrlâm. See [[syntax_existential|Existential clause]] article for further information.
 You can notice that famous "[[orcish_curse|Uglúk u bagronk...]]" phrase is also impersonal, moreover it has no verb too! "Uglúk" here is direct object and "u bagronk" is indirect object. However with less strict approach one may say that preposition "u" took verbal meaning "go to" (and that is probably why it was used standalone), then "Uglúk" is subject.
+===== Grammatical case of objects in impersonal sentences =====
+Patient of impersonal verb is often expressed by noun in [[case_dative|Dative case]], like in German "Mir ist kalt" (literally "to me it's cold") instead of "Ich bin kalt" ("I'm cold"). Similar expressions are used in Russian (but usually with 3rd person plural or 3rd person neuter singular). This is especially true for sentences describing state of being and verbs requiring object in dative case.
+The grammatical case of object of impersonal sentences depends on context. **//Genitive case//** is used with [[syntax_absence|expressions of absence]] (started with "no"). **//Dative case//** is used with verbs that usually require this case ("give", "tell", etc.) or with verbs expressing state (may be omitted) or transformation and following adverbial phrases.

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